Healthcare In Germany
NPR launched a new series on healthcare last week focusing on the healthcare systems of Germany, France, Netherlands, U.K and Switzerland. I just stumbled upon this today, so for the moment I am going to discuss Germany. A few startling facts about the German Healthcare System:
- Germany’s version of universal healthcare has existed for 125 years
- The majority of German patients are happy with the healthcare system the way it is
- The system is financed not by the Government but by the workers and their employers
- Germany has a 99.8% coverage of its 82.3 million people
- Children are completely covered until they are 18
The first part of the German series is just under 9 minutes long so please do go to NPR to listen to it because as soon as I listen to the other recordings, I will post the relevant data here. One of the biggest arguments I have heard against universal healthcare in the USA is that any such system might cause huge waits and a shortage of doctors however this is apparently another conservative rumor because according to the OECD: Germany and the USA have the same number of doctors per 1000 people. Germany beats the USA in specialists with 2.4 per 1000 people compared to the USA’s 1.7.
NPR have also developed a nifty health comparison tool which allows anyone to compare the health system in the USA to other European countries. The fact is that the healthcare system in the United States is in trouble and the best way to fix that system would be to learn from countries like Germany who have been using universal healthcare for the last 125 years and made it work.
The last major argument is about freedom of choice, the German’s have a great term for their support of universal healthcare called Solidarität (solidarity). In America we have a phrase: ” United we stand.” Why does that phrase only extend to national security? Why not healthcare? German society has stood together to support every person for the benefit of the entire country why is that impossible in America? I would like to believe it is not impossible and with an Obama presidency, it can be done.
August 04 2008 04:24 pm | American Politics and World Politics
August 5th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
The German system may indeed be working very well. If so, they’re the exception; the Canadian, British and French systems are all experiencing great difficulty at this time. Ireland, too, has its problems; budget woes cause clinics in the west to close, forcing patients to travel to Dublin for treatment.
In Canada, they export their difficult OB/GYN cases to the U.S. The UK is battling hospital-caused infections, caused by poor sanitation. France recently told retirees from other countries “Sorry, no free health care for you.” .
Perhaps there’s something culturally different among the Germans that holds down costs and delays.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Hey Gordon, looking at the OECD data, the one thing I can say about America is that you have a better chance of living through breast cancer, cervical cancer etc. if you do live in America.
I know all about the Dublin issue, in my part time work here, I often here about people complaining about the centralization of medical services in the city and leaving the people out in cork and the west to dry.
Not sure about France, but I will check that out.
The Germans are quite curious, the principle according to NPR is solidarity that they believe everyone should be entitled to healthcare.
NPR is talking about Britain etc…, I haven’t gotten that far yet, I am still listening to the German recordings.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:59 am
you know what i can’t understand is? it is the fact that people believe that health care is a right. food and shelter is a bigger need than health care. we need those each and everyday but how often do we need health care in our lives?
wouldn’t it be better to feed and shelter everyone and in doing so make the need of health care more affordable and less in demand to the individual?
August 6th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Food and Shelter are equally important but in a 1st world country like America, starvation is not a significant issue. The need for healthcare depends on your health.
Speaking to my dad about the evolution of the human immune system, he mentioned to me that people’s immune system is not as effective as it was 50 years ago when people exercised more, ate better and their was less pollution.
A weaker immune system means I am more prone to sickness. For example, I have gotten the flu at least once a year for as long as I remember. Healthcare does need to become more affordable but where are we going to get the money for that…
The German government doesn’t pay for their healthcare system, the companies do so why not the same in America? The German economy is still moving strong hence this has not had an visible effect on the economy.
August 12th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
i didn’t mean affordability as you saw it. i meant that people would have more money in their pocket to afford health insurance if the government paid for the necessities in life instead. and seeing to it that those necessities were provided would lower health care costs. as your dad said nutrition is the cause of a lot of health problems as is lack of shelter.
you always talk of the poor but who are the poorest of the poor besides those that live on the streets, sleep in alleyways and under bridges etc. and who beg everyday just to have a meal.
so, if you are out to help the poor and give them rights then food and shelter is a far greater need than health insurance. thus that should take priority in regards to universal rights, don’t you think?
as for the problems of each system, in looking them over, i prefer the problems we have or the problems germany is facing, given the benefits of each.
i noted one more thing too. not a single one of those surveys included the ranking of the systems as determined by the people who used them. why not? every other survey in regards to systems that i have read have always ranked the USA as no.1 in the world by that ranking.
i might give you something else to think about too. you took business classes so you know there is a difference in costs and value of a service or product. you’re always citing costs but how do these other systems determine the value of health care?
August 14th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Hey Griper, I actually have some research with regards to the ranking of the USA and specific medical afflictions which do prove the USA is number one according to the OECD. I have also been working on more of a local topic with data from CAHPS, once that is published, I will let you know as we would be able to have more of a complete discussion.
I see what you mean by affordability now, that does make sense. I can’t imagine how that would work though because the current system of food stamps seems very ineffective.
The Germans do have some serious problems however as to what you would prefer or I would prefer, I think the best thing to do is for some big research organization to find out what the uninsured want.
I am not sure how these other systems determine value, but I will find that out about Ireland at least if not Germany.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:17 am
Crian,
one point i was making is that there seems to be two groups of people evaluating the health systems of any country, the experts who evaluate each system based on statistical evidence vs the people themselves based upon how they are treated.
when this happens, i have to ask myself to which group would i depend upon for references?
“I think the best thing to do is for some big research organization to find out what the uninsured want.”
based on this question alone you don’t need a research company to find out. common sense tells you that. offer a person something and tell them that it is free or tell them something that will cost them money and the answer is simple.
besides, why should a minority of the people determine the solution for the nation instead of the majority of the people making that decision? and we are talking minority, around 10-15% in USA, depending on whose statistics is used.
one more thing. should government policy be determined by opinion polls or should they be determined by the voting polls?
as for value i was hoping you’d place a bit of that business training to work. value is determined by the open market. it cannot be determined by the closed market. price controls has shown itself to be a failure. and your business classes should have taught you why.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:25 am
oh one more thing, Crian, i wasn’t referring to afflictions, i was referring to preferences when i said the USA was no. 1.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Hey Griper, that makes sense with regards to preferences, so let me ask you this, what surveys are you talking about that state the U.S system as no.1? I know as far as the OECD data goes, they compare the life expectancy of people in the member countries for certain diseases and this is where the U.S is number 1 in all categories.
The only group to depend on is the people who are being treated, for sure, and the CAPHS data proves your point that people are quite happy with their healthcare (those who can afford it) . That same CAPHS data also states that people do not find healthcare affordable.
The minority should not determine what the majority wants, but then doesn’t that leave the solution of providing healthcare to people who don’t have it unanswered? I believe though that if the American people were asked in an open and honest way without political skewed questions to either side about healthcare for everyone, they would support it.
Government policy should be determined by voting polls however getting everyone to vote on an issue like healthcare would cost a lot of money, why not try a system out in a few more states over a year and then implement it fully if the benefits outweight the costs.
My business training is seriously lacking these days, don’t use that part of my brain anymore in my work. Price controls have been show to have failed in certain circumstances but they do work in others for example certain medications are forced to be sold at cost in Germany and yet they are still home to one of the biggest companies in the business a.k.a bayer.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Crian,
” for example certain medications are forced to be sold at cost in Germany and yet they are still home to one of the biggest companies in the business a.k.a bayer.”
ok, then how does bayer or any other company make its profit if it is selling their product at cost in germany?
August 17th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
From what I understand, it is only a limited number of drugs. The only one I know off that is sold at cost world wide is AZT (HIV Drug) which Bayer is then able to write off on their taxes. Not to mention helping people who have HIV in Africa and other parts of the world live longer.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Crian,
all business costs are written off before taxes. businesses only pay taxes on profits.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
you are quite right Griper, my bad on that mistake.